It's time Nathan Brown put his words into actions and dropped certain players. Forget how big of names they are and draft in the lads like Saveilo, Walker, Richards and Thompson.

These so called big names need to be sent to our dual reg clubs and let them slum it for a while. I might even put some steel into them.

I'm sick of hearing how good our squad is on paper and excuses being made for certain players with silly little stats. All I'm hearing today "Mose was our best forward" so what! He might have been the better of a complete crap pack. That pack is awful and without Manu and Amor it's utter awful.

They have even dragged Robes down to their level. The once great james Roby looks like a amateur player. Sia is another that's dropped down the Mose and co level. Sia and robes never played bad, even them at 60% was better than most in super league but now they are as bad as Lms,Mose, turner etc.

We need to admit our level and IMHO it's 5th placed team in the table.

Not sure on a few of those you've mentioned to be honest. Walker being one. Thought Greenwood struggled today but wasn't on his own. Thompson had a dig.

Greenwood was injured at Bradford so he may have been playing injured. I'm not impressed by Walker at all. Thompson has looked ok though. Relatively speaking that is.

Hope Jones' injury isn't a bad one. Really need him back as he is one who gives everything. Turner was poor again. Need to have him at right centre and Percival on the left with Swift back on the wing. I'd rather Dawson centre/wing than Turner.

The best teams are better teams than the sum of their individual parts - at the moment the sum of our individual parts is higher than our team performance (as you mention with roby's performances!)

When you look at individual performances today, there's nothing particularly wrong with them, it's the line speed, aggression, tackling technique, attitude etc is where we were let down - and that all stems from one place.

Instead of treating the ball with respect, 3 different players look for miracle balls after making a break - do they no longer have faith in their team mates to capitalise on the break on the next tackle? Our wingers are jumping in - a sign they don't have faith in the men inside them in defence - and were doing a terrible job of protecting Walsh to limit him form doing defensive work - time and again today Waterhouse isolated him - he needs more protection. As a team, were just not clicking. No structure, no attitude and seemingly no belief in one another. I feel like everyone is working not to be blamed for defeat rather than contributing to a victory.

If you look at our good performances this year, it all stems from working as a team. Whether that is because the youngsters fit as a "team" better, there are senior player politics behind the scenes, or what, i don't know, but I don't know who will be the one to fix it.

Oh, and we need, for the love of god to stop sending lomax makinson and swift (and Dawson) in on the first second and third every single game, it's like sending lambs to slaughter, and means on every set were playing the ball on the third on our own 10 metre line. It's a fine tactic for Leeds with hall (as big as a prop) and hardaker, but just doesn't work with our diminutive slight wingers.

Yeah I know, I was at the game. Surprised he started today though, rather than starting from the bench. Thompson has something about him though for me but we'll have to wait and see.

Might be his age, but I don't think Thompson is a prop. Could go well as a lock though, already better than lms at it and that's lms' better position!

Surely it comes from the top, meaning the Chairman.
When Lenagan bought Wigan prior to the 2008 season he had a coach who had brought us from being a relegation team to a semi final team. IL said winning trophies was why he bought the club. End of 2009 Noble went and Mcguire was appointed after a lengthy search for the right coach by Lenagan.
2010 Mcguire brought in only one player, then won the league and the GF.
between them Lenagan and Mcguire changed the culture of the club. Wane succeeded McGuire in 2012. Both Mcguire and Wane won three trophies each.

I do think your Chairman has to go down the same route. He needs to find a coach who will change the culture of the club. Brown has brought his culture from Hudds to Saints. Start a season well then fade into oblivion, which is what I think will happen to Saints this year. Amor's return may stem the slide.
He then has to sign the right players and unload those not good enough.

A long road for suffering fans but as a Wigan fan who well remembers 2006 under Millward the change is remarkable. The performance by a makeshift side v Leeds proves this IMO. There again your younger player did the same v Leeds. Perhaps a more ruthless approach of "play well and you're in, play poorly and you're out" should be implemented. I don't think you will go far wrong with that.
Our younger players played for themselves and the shirt v Leeds, didn't yours do the same? Your fans are calling for players with pride and passion, you have them at your club you just need a coach who'll play them.
If Brown won't select them then your Chairman needs to take action.
If he doesn't it will be same old, same old!

Antony Walker is one of the worst players to ever put on a jersey. People wanted rid of Clough yet he is twice the player Walker will ever be. His not even that (YOUNG). Apparantly he trains well. Never been impressed with him, even for the 18's and 20's. Get Savelio in and stop fuc*ing about.

I've been calling for players to be dropped all season but I'm going to argue against myself on this one occasion - I don't think THIS weekend is the time to do it.

In my opinion, if you've had the gauntlet thrown down by your coach and an icon like Paul Wellens, you see how people react.

I genuinely believe that this weekend could be the last game in a saints shirt for those who don't react positively.

I'd be playing our "first choice" available 17 against Huddersfield then making changes, perhaps PERMANENT changes, for the week after based on who does and does not perform. I don't necessarily mean did they have a great game or not, I mean did they look ready to run through walls or not. Everyone can have an off day, but it's the effort, application and pride that I want to see back.

I don't know whether anyone has heard [url=http://www.redvee.net/interviews/Wello.mp3this interview[/url with Paul Wellens, much fuller than the one on Sky, but I agree with him about the mental attitude. However, why we are still playing the players who are showing a poor mental attitude is very much down to the coaching staff.

Fully agree.